Sunday, August 29, 2010



"We the people will have been financially enslaved and not feast at Soros' and Obama's table.

AND gold or other precious metal will not be the answer. Whoever tries to buy it will have to pay for it with WHAT? A worthless currency. So your gold holdings would be worth a few cents at best or in fact NOTHING.

And efforts to barter it, or silver, will receive some response to start with but when it becomes a useless piece of metal that nobody can use, like any paper currency, then pure barter of an item of service will become the going "currency" or locally printed "money scripp" good for your neighborhood or municipality only. These might combine into slightly larger communities."

Trader's Reply:

"So your gold holdings would be worth a few cents at best or in fact NOTHING".

You have said this before. It was BS then, and it's BS again. An ounce of Gold will always be worth about 500 loaves of bread, the finest suit of clothes, a month's rent for a family of four in a middle-level house.

The only exception would be if the government were ever able to pry all the gold out of private hands, and to criminalize its use. The only way that could happen would be if the government offered a premium grubstake for people to turn it in. Otherwise, it will always be out there on the black market, holding its value when nothing else will.

(Please post opinions/comments)

Why would it be worth anything?

A loaf of bread would estimatedly cost nearly $200 after INITIAL devaluation. So 500 loaves of bread would be $10,000 and does not compute.

You appear stuck in a world which resembles “today” and not what will actually happen.

If you think gold will become a new currency, you may be right for a short while until people discover that food, clothing and essentials of life - by then - when there is no national scale industry nor fuel to run one or transport goods everything becomes local - where a horse or a gun becomes a necessary luxury, gold will no longer be a useful “thing”.

You could exchange/barter a useful item you own for something you need for a practical item like a gun, or a sweater you possessed or a warm coat or a pair of shoes.

Why would you even need or want a suit after the disaster Obama is crashing down on us. And renting will become a communal affair or occupying empty buildings.

Allow your mind out of its conventional box and expand it to visualize future reality.

Their value will outpace a piece of yellow metal that becomes purely symbolic with no value of its own. And no government to guarantee it (or anything else).

When hunger or cold or need for medication or bandages rises, the little metal symbols you imagine will survive will vanish. Or will be stolen or robbed by armed marauders or local gangs. Leaving you without any means to survive.

You still think of “trade” instead of “barter”. With very limited transportation in the sense you envisage, trade will shrink to minimal activity.

You might find gold (for a while) a base "trade" calculator in exchange for coal or a similar mined or manufactured item NEEDED for survival. Heat being one of these.

But think again. After a while nobody will have any gold left. It will have accumulated in fewer and fewer “rich” hands. Like the barons of old.

Its value will be arbitrary - as were coins in old times and not universally accepted. Specially when it is melted down, contaminated with other metals and turned in to ever less pure forms.

How long do you really believe gold or silver which few will be able to assay or verify will survive?

Your assumptions seem very strongly based on what a gold dealer (like yourself?) would like us to believe. Not like our future realities you might wish to rethink.

The global economy will also devolve into a set of Fifth (not even third) world, AGRICULTURAL very local economies and societies. The Amish social level will be about the best of modernity which survives.

VERY RAPIDLY so as millions die of hunger and disease from  an overall inability to get health care or adequately grow their own food.

Remember, like the Bubonic plague of the 1600's in Europe there will quickly be nobody available or willing to bury those who die of disease. Bringing more disease and deaths.

No more truckoads or trains of anything going anywhere. (Some train conversions in coal bearing States)

The Wild Wild West days will be MODERN compared to what we we will be facing in a very short time. They were hardy people in those days, used to a minimal life style.

Today we are softies, who will die or be killed in droves during a period of lawlessness and scant food or basic needs. Like electricity - so virtually no refrigeration of food or other perishables like medicines.

How much gold would pay for some still active antibiotics some 30-years from now?

Projections estimate that in a matter of not too many decades, less than a century, probably within 60-years our American population will dwindle toward about 40 million as in the times of George Washington and our living standards will mimic those of that time with some improvements based on our acquired scientific knowledge.

What I suggest may be beyond your lifetime or mine but could begin to be felt even by our adult children and with increased intensity by our grandchildren after Oba-Hussein and a nascent Islamic Caliphate collapses us and the global economy, even for Moslems.

Of course, that is if the Mayans are incorrect and we get that far past 2012/13 natural solar events. I hope we do but your “gold” will not have value for very long. Maybe for a decade or so, though I have my doubts about even that long after the US Dollar and virtually very other currency crash like dominoes.

I have NO agenda to defend - NOR espouse.

Only a fairly good ability to visualize - based on world history, human nature, and widely travelled worldwide experience and of course a modicum of imagination to extrapolate what you wish to deny - as a gold or day trader(?).

Final Reply from Trader

"purely symbolic with no value of its own"

That's where you're right and wrong at the same time. Gold is always worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

The reason it holds value vis-a-vis desirable, needed resources (and even luxuries), is that someone HAS those resources. Their problem is storing their value. Take wheat, for example. The grower knows he has something of value, but he must dispose of it. He wants something small and portable to store the value of something that originally took up hundreds of acres, tens of thousands of bushels. That's where gold comes in. Always has, always will. Its absolute value will change with monetary policy. But its relative value will always make it worth a fairly rigid amount of the necessities of life.

Is that hard to see?

Thanks for your considerable response. We just disagree, poles apart. And that's fine, since the subject is by definition speculative.

Your reply is courteous and pleasant and appreciated. In fact this conversation has been posted without names or tags (anonymously) on AntiMullah to try to garner opinions from visitors from some 88 countries.
You are not the thrust of my “negative opinion” - Obambi is. He is taking us down the path of perdition
BTW - breaking news - Iran has withdrawn all its bank assets from Europe.

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